speaker-0 (00:00.577)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (00:01.966)
Welcome to the Facts Matter Podcast. I’m Guy Gordon with Eric Loofer, President of the Citizens Research Council of Michigan. We are on the front porch. This is Facts from the Front Porch. We’re joined by Monique Field Foster from Orner North Cross. And John, welcome to Facts Matter.
speaker-0 (00:19.088)
Thank you. Appreciate you having me.
speaker-1 (00:22.466)
This day two really, two and a half, depending on when you came up with a conference. once again we’re talking about the lack of population growth and lack of income growth in our state and everything. what’s it gonna take to move the needle on this? So how do we bring these discussions off of Mackinac to Lansing and move the needle on anything?
speaker-0 (00:44.766)
Well, I think one of the important things is just like the theme of this conference, it is common ground. I I think, you know, I’ve been doing governmental affairs for 26 years, though I hate to admit that. and it has I have seen it change. I have seen the tenor of politics change in that time. And I think we need to figure out a way to get back to working together and taking partisanship out of these conversations.
I mean we all love the state. We all want to do what’s best for the state. We all want to grow the populations. We all want to deal with the housing crisis. We all want to invest in business and opportunities. It’s always been an issue of what the best way to do that is. But I think if we put our politics aside and sit at the table together and have a conversation, then we can get those things done.
speaker-1 (01:39.094)
It kind of goes beyond that though. We’ve heard a lot, Eric and I, about the purple curse. The fact that we’re a purple state, we have these pendulum swings every eight years. We do. And it’s every eight years we think we need to clean sheet it. So we have the Snyder 21st Century Program. Yep. Then we pivot to the Michigan Growth Council. And that this notion that every time whatever we inherited from the administration before is bad. Instead of building, saying we’ve got a foundation, let’s build on it, and yes, our agenda is
a little different. How do we get out of that cycle? It’s that common ground again.
speaker-0 (02:15.01)
It is it is that common ground again. And I mean that that’s the question, right? That’s the rough because I think voters listen a lot to the headlines. We we get caught up in what’s the latest news story, what’s the next talking point. And I think as whether it’s lobbyists, whether it is elected officials, whether it is different business groups or entities that are involved in this space.
We’ve got to do a better job at educating the population and the citizens of the state that the headlines are one thing, but what’s actually going on in the rooms behind closed doors, those conversations, those policies, why that matters. When you think about the number of voters that get sick of the headlines and they decide to stay home and not vote, or they’re just like, well, what is this person doing for me? Or, you know, how is this going to impact my
I think we need to really take a minute and step away from okay yeah this is this is the the popular thing to say and ultimately get to the brass tacks of telling people this is what this means for you. If we keep doing this the this pendulum, if we keep basically having the conversation of this political party is better for you than this political party is and we’re going to fix all of your needs.
speaker-1 (03:42.574)
We spend so much time saying they’re bad. We don’t need to throw the baby out with a bath. Water it’s just because it has someone’s fingerprints on them and they’re not red and they’re not blue doesn’t
speaker-0 (03:44.709)
Absolutely.
speaker-0 (03:52.984)
A good idea is a good idea. I I mean and and we need to go with that. And and to give Eric a plug here, it it’s a lot of what the Citizens Research Council is doing is providing that research that I think people are missing. And when you have a group come out and basically like for data centers, for example, as we were talking about earlier, or whether it is sports betting or or whether it is roads or or whatever that particular latest issue is that some
Politician is talking about, well, you have a nonpartisan group that’s going to give you the facts of what that really means. And I think it’s important that people are able to read and understand what those policies are and what they mean to them. And I don’t think we’re able to get out of the pendulum switch the pendulum swift shift, excuse me, until we actually are able to educate people so that they understand, yeah, this issue does.
And yes, Michigan is at the bottom in education because we keep going back and forth as far as who’s in office. And when we finally get on the same page to say kids are important and we ultimately need to make sure that we have a state policy in place and move forward, we may need to, you know, tinker with it a little bit, but completely undoing it is not the solution.
speaker-1 (05:17.422)
Yeah, we’re not making any progress doing that. We’re just we call it the Michigan 180. You know how do you make a left turn in Michigan? You go and you do this and so we just march back and forth while other states are marching forward.
speaker-0 (05:33.048)
Absolutely. Right.
There is some benefit. I mean, to be able to say Michigan is a purple state, in general, being able to hear from both sides. Like I said, I’ve been doing this for 26 years, and being able to have the ideas from both sides is not a bad thing. It’s just making sure you’ve got people from both sides willing to sit down and listen to each other. So, and respect the fact that an idea from a Democrat or an idea from a Republican
doesn’t in and of itself make it bad.
speaker-1 (06:07.992)
Okay.
So data centers have been a big issue up here. one of the things that’s really stood out to me, we’re locating them for the most part. There’s some cities talking about it, but mostly in townships. And what I’ve learned over my time in township, you know, do studying local government, our township boards are five or seven people, usually doing this as a part-time gig, just to be civically minded and helped.
They have a a lawyer that very you know very competent but limited experience doing a lot of things and now they’re negotiating with Google or Oracle or what other big companies. so you know i is there a role for the state here to either
manage this or assist those townships or to to be the the knowledge bank to come to to how do we do this the right way.
speaker-0 (07:09.678)
Well, and you know transparency, our firm represents a lot of the the data centers that are coming in. So our attorneys have been having this conversation and and representing some of those companies that come in and conversations with the townships. And I think just you know, off the top of my head, I think one of the things that would be helpful is a few years ago we did the
state solar sighting because a lot of the very similar issues that data centers are facing are exactly what companies putting solar arrays in these townships we’re dealing with. And ultimately what the state thankfully decided to do was to come in and create a structure that you know you have to basically work with the township first. If you can’t get anywhere with the township then the MPSC plays a role in that.
Yeah.
speaker-1 (08:10.252)
So are we talking about something like a universal framework for and and maybe some baseline things to address the locals’ concerns?
being held harmless from utility rate increases. closed loop water cooling instead of evaporative. Things that automatically get those really difficult conversations and address them early. Then you can fine-tune it to what the property taxes are going to be.
speaker-0 (08:42.198)
No, and I think that would be very helpful. I I definitely
speaker-1 (08:45.176)
Don’t hamstring the the the your clients that are the data centers, you think that that won’t wouldn’t chase them away?
speaker-0 (08:51.47)
I think at the end of the day, a lot of companies are looking for structure. I when you come into a township and you are in one community dealing with one set of rules. In another community, you’re dealing with another set of rules. And I think businesses look for some type of structure. They look for some type of yes. And you when you don’t have that, and that’s what Michigan has a lot of, is inconsistencies. And so if you can create a
a system and have that in place where you are ultimately bringing the all of the voices to the table to address those concerns, but you have the referee, so to speak, to ultimately say this is how this needs to work and this is how we’re going to continue to do that. I think that is a plus for people looking to come and invest in Michigan. And I think with the economy the way it is, I think there’s a ton of opportunities that Michigan is missing out on.
speaker-1 (09:51.982)
What are you looking forward to the rest of the day? Are there sessions you’re gonna try to sit in on or
speaker-0 (09:58.936)
You know, the the great thing about the island is it’s flexible, right? It’s like I’ve got a ton of things on my calendar. I’ve got clients up here and meetings with department directors. The one thing we are definitely gonna do is go to the governor’s keynote and sit in on that. We’re excited, it’s her last one. So we want to go in and and sit and have those conversations. But being able to walk the porch and have those just
spontaneous conversations. It’s been wonderful to be able to accomplish a lot of things that you’re not able to accomplish when you’re at home.
speaker-1 (10:36.808)
Yeah. You just don’t know who you’re gonna run into. And those sometimes are the most valuable moments. So pleased that you made some time for us in your busy schedule to join us on Facts Matter.
speaker-0 (10:41.558)
Yes they are.
speaker-0 (10:46.978)
Well thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed it. Good.
speaker-1 (10:49.982)
Good. And join us for another edition from the front porch where the facts are everywhere. And we promised to share them without fear, favor, or partisanship. Until next time, I’m Guy Gordon with Eric Lofer. Thanks for joining us.
speaker-2 (11:04.218)
The Citizens Research Council of Michigan has been providing lawmakers, academics, the media, philanthropists, business leaders, voters, and all Michiganders with factual, unbiased, independent information on significant issues concerning state and local government organization and finance. For over a century, our research is available to you.
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