A rare bipartisan push to modernize Michigan elections
Michigan is one of only three states where party insiders—not voters—pick nominees for Secretary of State and Attorney General
Only 3,000 party insiders currently choose Michigan’s Secretary of State and Attorney General nominees.
A bipartisan duo—Lon Johnson and Jason Roe—want to change that. In a rare bipartisan push to modernize Michigan elections, their message is: let millions of voters decide, not a convention hall.
In another segment of the #FactsMatter podcast series shorts, “Facts from the Front Porch”, Johnson sits down with Eric Lupher and Guy Gordon to make the case for open primaries for Michigan’s Secretary of State and Attorney General.
Johnson and Roe are pushing to move these nominations to a statewide primary, where every voter can participate. Johnson argues that broader participation produces stronger candidates and a healthier democracy.
“You never go wrong when you allow more people to have a voice,” he said.
To place the change on the November ballot, two-thirds of both the Michigan House and Senate must approve the ballot language before lawmakers leave for summer recess.
Ballots begin printing on September 4, making the timeline tight but still achievable. Johnson cites the bipartisan success of Proposal 1 in 2022 as evidence that major reforms can pass when both sides work together.
The conversation also touched on the broader political climate. Amid rising polarization and threats that discourage people from public service, Johnson believes structural reforms like this can help rebuild trust and lower the temperature.
Despite coming from opposite parties, Johnson and Roe have been traveling the state together to make their case — a partnership the podcast hosts described as a refreshing reminder that bipartisan cooperation is still possible.
You can also find this and all #FactsMatter podcasts on Substack: https://crcmich.substack.com/p/reforming-michigans-candidate-nominations?utm_source=youtube.
speaker-0 (00:00.526)
Welcome to the Facts Matter Podcast. Facts from the front porch here at the Grand Hotel at the Chamber Mackinac Policy Conference. Eric Loufer and I have been having great conversations with thought leaders across a variety of disciplines. We’re joined by Lon Johnson, who has been a long time operative within the Democratic circles. Yes, former chairman. Former chairman, but you’ve put on a a different hat this time. You’re joining with your friend Jason Rowe, who’s on the Republican side.
And you’ve taken on a somewhat of a crusade to say, you know what, this idea of smoke-filled rooms or as you might have called them, vape-filled rooms now, to choose Secretary of State and AG candidates. But you think it’s time we end that. Let’s start there. Absolutely.
speaker-1 (00:46.646)
Well, you know, this started, these parties nominate the Secretary of State and Attorney General at conventions. That goes back to our nineteen sixty-three convention. We’re doing it, the parties are doing it because the Constitution tells them they have to. we think there’s a it’s now time to open that party that process up and let every voter decide who the nominee is for Attorney General and Secretary State. Instead of just three thousand special interests and insiders. So
speaker-0 (01:11.308)
Those two offices particularly, we want capable people. Yes. Right? not so much a popularity contest, but are you capable of running a multi million dollar business that is the State Department, the different offices getting your license and and everything and and running elections. Yes. And likewise in the Attorney General office, capable people of of running that type of thing. is the election the best way to get to that path or
speaker-1 (01:41.302)
Well, it’s you know, i it’s a belief here that the more people that are engaged in the process, the better and more refined our candidates can be and and let the people decide that instead of instead of three thousand people inside a room. you know, how does somebody from Marquette, you know, get down to Detroit on a Sunday to vote? You know, we’re just shutting out millions of people. And the more voices that are heard, we feel confident, the better results will be for the people of Michigan.
speaker-0 (02:08.334)
Doesn’t necessarily necessarily mean that we’ll get better candidates. Clearly they’ll be vetted, won’t they?
speaker-1 (02:11.97)
Well, you i every election’s still Well certainly, you know, y you never go wrong when you allow people to have a voice. Right now only about three thousand people are having that voice and we think, you know, we’re only one of three states that does this and it’s time to open this process up.
speaker-0 (02:25.774)
Yeah, I was gonna ask about the other states. is this generally how it’s done
speaker-1 (02:30.892)
Elsewhere. Yeah, forty seven other states go right to the ballot and there’s three other states that continue to do it the way do we do it in a convention process. And we just think we can do better in the state of Michigan. How high is the bar?
speaker-0 (02:41.772)
How high is the bar? To to get this on the ballot to change things?
speaker-1 (02:46.71)
So it’s let me do it the the process here is the two House has to vote two-thirds of the House members and the Senate has to vote two-thirds of the Senate members. So it’s a supermajority. At that point it once that passes, what the what they’ll do be what they’ll be voting on is the language to go before the voters. Okay. If that passes, it doesn’t even need to be signed by the governor. It immediately goes on the November ballot and the and the voters will choose, yes, we want to make this change or no we don’t.
speaker-0 (03:11.414)
And what’s the timing there’s when you start backing up from that November election?
speaker-1 (03:15.412)
Two two key dates. One is the next forty days until this legislature ends. You know, there’ll always be there’s sessions and then they go out and they recess for the summer. We’ve gotta get we’ve gotta get this done before that recess, number one. And second, the the reason why we need this done is before September fourth is when the clerks, the Michigan clerks have a deadline of when they have to start printing ballots.
speaker-0 (03:37.688)
So knowing how polarized our Michigan legislature is at this moment, how do you get to two thirds?
speaker-1 (03:42.338)
You know, look, this is not an impossible task. It was done two years ago under Prop One. I don’t know if you recall that, but business and labor and electeds and Democrats and Republicans all came together and they passed significant reforms. and that was done with a a supermajority and I think it can be done here. You know, it’s is it a lift? Absolutely. Whenever you’re changing the constitution you have to be very deliberate and make sure that we’re thinking this through. But I think so far we we’ve got a a lot of consensus out here that this needs to happen.
speaker-0 (04:10.936)
So the Citizens Research Council, you you’re probably aware this November, question number one is whether to convene a constitutional convention. And we’ve been spending a lot of time explaining what that means and how everything works. And yes. A couple months or so ago we covered the elections provisions and I think maybe dug into this a little bit. are there bigger issues? Is is this as we think about
speaker-1 (04:18.753)
That’s right.
speaker-0 (04:40.214)
Selection of candidates and and how our legislature’s operating and things like that. Is is there more fodder that our our listeners should think about as they formulate their vote than
speaker-1 (04:51.016)
Well you we would just ask them to think is it fair that only three thousand people choose your attorney general and your secretary of state? And our answer is just no, there’s a better way to run a railroad, that’s more people involved and we think it should be up left to the voters to choose the nominees, not in the state.
speaker-0 (05:05.888)
So was there a specific catalyst to this? Was it the most recent caucus?
speaker-1 (05:10.668)
I know, I know that same I know that may seem that may seem the timing suspect, absolutely. However, look this is a r this is running elections are something the parties are mandated to do. It’s not really something that they want to do or in fact they’re good at. As you know, as now being witnessed. there’s deep consensus. I’ve talked to many of the I’m a former chair, I’ve talked to other past chairs. We gotta get these parties out of the job of running elections because their job ultimately is to win elections.
speaker-0 (05:38.828)
How many media hits have you and Jason done in the past
speaker-1 (05:42.094)
You know, that’s we’ve had a blast. You know, it’s nice to go out there on a Democrat Republic it’s refreshing Democrat Republican basis and talk about hey these are the things we see happening that need to happen to move our state forward on a bipartisan basis, so let’s work to get it done. The public is always asking for that and so let’s get
speaker-0 (05:59.426)
And when you talk to elected officials about this, do you is there a consensus building that yeah it’s time?
speaker-1 (06:05.236)
Absolutely. You know, and you know, the the events of the last day with the Michigan State President leaving is another example of if we don’t you know if we don’t responsibly act here, w the state will start to lose, start to lose policy wise and good people.
speaker-0 (06:21.112)
think we’re seeing that in in spades. people don’t want to run for office because of all the rancor and and death threats and everything else going on. So bringing the temperature down is a good thing.
speaker-1 (06:24.024)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (06:33.166)
You know.
bringing it down but also what’s even better is getting something done. And so, you know, but it look change change happens slowly, but it ch happens best when both sides agree. And that’s what we’re proving here once again that that can be done. That’s not dead.
speaker-0 (06:49.132)
Yeah. Well if nothing else, you and Jason rode together on the road, pitching
speaker-1 (06:54.174)
Nice thing. Little cats and dogs actually.
speaker-0 (06:57.358)
Yeah, that’s right. But all but all pulling in the same direction, which I think people will find very refreshing. Yes. Thank you very much. And thank you for joining us on this Facts Matter podcast. Much more to come from the Akinon. Until next time, for Eric Lufer, I’m Guy Gordon. Take care.
speaker-1 (07:05.134)
That’s what happened.
speaker-2 (07:14.892)
The Citizens Research Council of Michigan has been providing lawmakers, academics, the media, philanthropists, business leaders, voters, and all Michiganders with factual, unbiased, independent information on significant issues concerning state and local government organization and finance. For over a century, our research is available to you. Go online at CRCMish.org.
And on all the social media platforms, Twitter, Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and download our research. Check out our numerous papers and blogs, and listen to our podcasts. And while you’re there, please consider supporting our research with a donation. This has been a Facts Matter Podcast, a presentation of the Citizens Research Council of Michigan.
A rare bipartisan push to modernize Michigan elections
Michigan is one of only three states where party insiders—not voters—pick nominees for Secretary of State and Attorney General.
Only 3,000 party insiders currently choose Michigan’s Secretary of State and Attorney General nominees.
A bipartisan duo—Lon Johnson and Jason Roe—want to change that. In a rare bipartisan push to modernize Michigan elections, their message is: let millions of voters decide, not a convention hall.
In another segment of the #FactsMatter podcast series shorts, "Facts from the Front Porch", Johnson sits down with Eric Lupher and Guy Gordon to make the case for open primaries for Michigan's Secretary of State and Attorney General.
Johnson and Roe are pushing to move these nominations to a statewide primary, where every voter can participate. Johnson argues that broader participation produces stronger candidates and a healthier democracy.
“You never go wrong when you allow more people to have a voice,” he said.
To place the change on the November ballot, two-thirds of both the Michigan House and Senate must approve the ballot language before lawmakers leave for summer recess.
Ballots begin printing on September 4, making the timeline tight but still achievable. Johnson cites the bipartisan success of Proposal 1 in 2022 as evidence that major reforms can pass when both sides work together.
The conversation also touched on the broader political climate. Amid rising polarization and threats that discourage people from public service, Johnson believes structural reforms like this can help rebuild trust and lower the temperature.
Despite coming from opposite parties, Johnson and Roe have been traveling the state together to make their case — a partnership the podcast hosts described as a refreshing reminder that bipartisan cooperation is still possible.
You can also find this and all #FactsMatter podcasts on Substack: https://crcmich.substack.com/p/reforming-michigans-candidate-nominations?utm_source=youtube.
Like, Follow, Share and Subscribe!
Transcripts
speaker-0 (00:00.526)
Welcome to the Facts Matter Podcast. Facts from the front porch here at the Grand Hotel at the Chamber Mackinac Policy Conference. Eric Loufer and I have been having great conversations with thought leaders across a variety of disciplines. We’re joined by Lon Johnson, who has been a long time operative within the Democratic circles. Yes, former chairman. Former chairman, but you’ve put on a a different hat this time. You’re joining with your friend Jason Rowe, who’s on the Republican side.
And you’ve taken on a somewhat of a crusade to say, you know what, this idea of smoke-filled rooms or as you might have called them, vape-filled rooms now, to choose Secretary of State and AG candidates. But you think it’s time we end that. Let’s start there. Absolutely.
speaker-1 (00:46.646)
Well, you know, this started, these parties nominate the Secretary of State and Attorney General at conventions. That goes back to our nineteen sixty-three convention. We’re doing it, the parties are doing it because the Constitution tells them they have to. we think there’s a it’s now time to open that party that process up and let every voter decide who the nominee is for Attorney General and Secretary State. Instead of just three thousand special interests and insiders. So
speaker-0 (01:11.308)
Those two offices particularly, we want capable people. Yes. Right? not so much a popularity contest, but are you capable of running a multi million dollar business that is the State Department, the different offices getting your license and and everything and and running elections. Yes. And likewise in the Attorney General office, capable people of of running that type of thing. is the election the best way to get to that path or
speaker-1 (01:41.302)
Well, it’s you know, i it’s a belief here that the more people that are engaged in the process, the better and more refined our candidates can be and and let the people decide that instead of instead of three thousand people inside a room. you know, how does somebody from Marquette, you know, get down to Detroit on a Sunday to vote? You know, we’re just shutting out millions of people. And the more voices that are heard, we feel confident, the better results will be for the people of Michigan.
speaker-0 (02:08.334)
Doesn’t necessarily necessarily mean that we’ll get better candidates. Clearly they’ll be vetted, won’t they?
speaker-1 (02:11.97)
Well, you i every election’s still Well certainly, you know, y you never go wrong when you allow people to have a voice. Right now only about three thousand people are having that voice and we think, you know, we’re only one of three states that does this and it’s time to open this process up.
speaker-0 (02:25.774)
Yeah, I was gonna ask about the other states. is this generally how it’s done
speaker-1 (02:30.892)
Elsewhere. Yeah, forty seven other states go right to the ballot and there’s three other states that continue to do it the way do we do it in a convention process. And we just think we can do better in the state of Michigan. How high is the bar?
speaker-0 (02:41.772)
How high is the bar? To to get this on the ballot to change things?
speaker-1 (02:46.71)
So it’s let me do it the the process here is the two House has to vote two-thirds of the House members and the Senate has to vote two-thirds of the Senate members. So it’s a supermajority. At that point it once that passes, what the what they’ll do be what they’ll be voting on is the language to go before the voters. Okay. If that passes, it doesn’t even need to be signed by the governor. It immediately goes on the November ballot and the and the voters will choose, yes, we want to make this change or no we don’t.
speaker-0 (03:11.414)
And what’s the timing there’s when you start backing up from that November election?
speaker-1 (03:15.412)
Two two key dates. One is the next forty days until this legislature ends. You know, there’ll always be there’s sessions and then they go out and they recess for the summer. We’ve gotta get we’ve gotta get this done before that recess, number one. And second, the the reason why we need this done is before September fourth is when the clerks, the Michigan clerks have a deadline of when they have to start printing ballots.
speaker-0 (03:37.688)
So knowing how polarized our Michigan legislature is at this moment, how do you get to two thirds?
speaker-1 (03:42.338)
You know, look, this is not an impossible task. It was done two years ago under Prop One. I don’t know if you recall that, but business and labor and electeds and Democrats and Republicans all came together and they passed significant reforms. and that was done with a a supermajority and I think it can be done here. You know, it’s is it a lift? Absolutely. Whenever you’re changing the constitution you have to be very deliberate and make sure that we’re thinking this through. But I think so far we we’ve got a a lot of consensus out here that this needs to happen.
speaker-0 (04:10.936)
So the Citizens Research Council, you you’re probably aware this November, question number one is whether to convene a constitutional convention. And we’ve been spending a lot of time explaining what that means and how everything works. And yes. A couple months or so ago we covered the elections provisions and I think maybe dug into this a little bit. are there bigger issues? Is is this as we think about
speaker-1 (04:18.753)
That’s right.
speaker-0 (04:40.214)
Selection of candidates and and how our legislature’s operating and things like that. Is is there more fodder that our our listeners should think about as they formulate their vote than
speaker-1 (04:51.016)
Well you we would just ask them to think is it fair that only three thousand people choose your attorney general and your secretary of state? And our answer is just no, there’s a better way to run a railroad, that’s more people involved and we think it should be up left to the voters to choose the nominees, not in the state.
speaker-0 (05:05.888)
So was there a specific catalyst to this? Was it the most recent caucus?
speaker-1 (05:10.668)
I know, I know that same I know that may seem that may seem the timing suspect, absolutely. However, look this is a r this is running elections are something the parties are mandated to do. It’s not really something that they want to do or in fact they’re good at. As you know, as now being witnessed. there’s deep consensus. I’ve talked to many of the I’m a former chair, I’ve talked to other past chairs. We gotta get these parties out of the job of running elections because their job ultimately is to win elections.
speaker-0 (05:38.828)
How many media hits have you and Jason done in the past
speaker-1 (05:42.094)
You know, that’s we’ve had a blast. You know, it’s nice to go out there on a Democrat Republic it’s refreshing Democrat Republican basis and talk about hey these are the things we see happening that need to happen to move our state forward on a bipartisan basis, so let’s work to get it done. The public is always asking for that and so let’s get
speaker-0 (05:59.426)
And when you talk to elected officials about this, do you is there a consensus building that yeah it’s time?
speaker-1 (06:05.236)
Absolutely. You know, and you know, the the events of the last day with the Michigan State President leaving is another example of if we don’t you know if we don’t responsibly act here, w the state will start to lose, start to lose policy wise and good people.
speaker-0 (06:21.112)
think we’re seeing that in in spades. people don’t want to run for office because of all the rancor and and death threats and everything else going on. So bringing the temperature down is a good thing.
speaker-1 (06:24.024)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (06:33.166)
You know.
bringing it down but also what’s even better is getting something done. And so, you know, but it look change change happens slowly, but it ch happens best when both sides agree. And that’s what we’re proving here once again that that can be done. That’s not dead.
speaker-0 (06:49.132)
Yeah. Well if nothing else, you and Jason rode together on the road, pitching
speaker-1 (06:54.174)
Nice thing. Little cats and dogs actually.
speaker-0 (06:57.358)
Yeah, that’s right. But all but all pulling in the same direction, which I think people will find very refreshing. Yes. Thank you very much. And thank you for joining us on this Facts Matter podcast. Much more to come from the Akinon. Until next time, for Eric Lufer, I’m Guy Gordon. Take care.
speaker-1 (07:05.134)
That’s what happened.
speaker-2 (07:14.892)
The Citizens Research Council of Michigan has been providing lawmakers, academics, the media, philanthropists, business leaders, voters, and all Michiganders with factual, unbiased, independent information on significant issues concerning state and local government organization and finance. For over a century, our research is available to you. Go online at CRCMish.org.
And on all the social media platforms, Twitter, Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and download our research. Check out our numerous papers and blogs, and listen to our podcasts. And while you’re there, please consider supporting our research with a donation. This has been a Facts Matter Podcast, a presentation of the Citizens Research Council of Michigan.
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